How Family Business Leaders Can Help Drive Change

Welcome everyone and thank you for attending today's webinar. I'm David Shaw the publishing director for family business magazine. I hope that you and your fellow family members and employees are and remain in good health in this holiday season. Today's topic is about what comes next as a family business leader, you know that you have an impact on the organization. But what do you do after that? If you're a founder or a member of the current managing generation of your business, this is often the question if you retire what are you going to do play golf all the time? So today we're going to take a look at that question through the lens of active philanthropy and running a successful private family Foundation Even if you're still in the business, you can bring the same energy and entrepreneurialism to your giving and that's really the point of today's session. Our speakers today are going to provide a wonderful example of that approach. So some quick housekeeping details, if you've attended our webinars in the past, you know that you can ask a question directly under the ask a question using the ask a question button directly under me where you see my video feed. We'll go for no more than 60 minutes today and I will try to get to as many of your questions as we possibly can. Our speakers today are court and Robin lorenzini and they're joined by Elizabeth Wong from Foundation source. Court lorenzini is the founder and CEO of multiple successful technology startups, including DocuSign point.com Primus biovision and metabrite Inc over his career court has raised over $300 million dollars in Venture and strategic funding from leading corporations and Venture Capital funds. He is a co-founder of the lorenzini Family Foundation. Robin Neff laurenzini is also a co-founder of that foundation and serves as its president her first entrance into philanthropic work was as a member of the original cohort in Social Venture Partners following in that passion Robin became an experienced philanthropist and investor specializing in making connections that build community and improve female and non-binary-run businesses. Joining the lorenzinis is Elizabeth Wong the national director of philanthropic advisory services at Foundation Source where she manages and experienced team of philanthropic directors. And as a member of the company's management team. Elizabeth the floor is yours. I'm really delighted today to be able to welcome court and Robin Warren zini who Co lead the lorenzini Family Foundation and looking forward to getting started. So corn Robin. Let's go back in time a little bit. Can you talk about when charitable giving Which you were already engaged in gave rise to the idea of creating a private Foundation? Was it before you left your full-time roll a CEO or after? And what were some of the factors that led the two of you to make the shift from charitable giving to Leading a private foundation in other words why set up a foundation? there was in my world at least a significant period of time between when I wrapped up my last company as a CEO and I've started four companies five now and when I started the foundation with Robin because we we needed some time off like you end up running a company and it takes a lot out of you and it takes some time to kind of step back after you're done and Live life a little bit and understand what you're doing. You know what you want to do. We obviously were blessed with some of the things that we had done as a family that that took off but we really understood that we wanted to make long-term plans. And you know, one of the things that that Robin loves to say is, you know, when you get a sizable outcome as we have in a couple of situations you're playing with live ammo and you know, our children are in their 20s now, I think you know families that that have younger kids may even have it harder but at the end of the day one of the things we were strongly considering was not just our own lifestyle, but what it meant to pass on or have this extraordinary amount of assets and what that would gonna mean for our kids and and the numbers were just frankly too large to consider leaving the entire thing to them with the hopes that they might use it wisely. So the foundation grew out of somewhat out of an idea that we wanted to create a situation where not only where our children taking care of which we did through independent trust but also that the long-term goal is that a hundred percent of our accumulated net worth will eventually go into this Foundation to make long-term social change with the you know with the secondary benefit of reducing a death tax burden. So these are some of the things we were considering and I don't know Rob if you wanted to add a few things there. Yeah, so to imply imply that we had. A long-term plan to do this at some point in time would be inaccurate. We as all of the people who are in this webinar know that when you're starting a business, even if you're the CEO or you're the support behind the CEO it is, you know, you're in a in a foxhole together and it is a daily roller coaster of oh my gosh, things are great. Oh my gosh, things are crashing and that is a very exciting and a very exhausting time to live in so as Court said it was definitely some time afterwards to sit and breathe and reflect on the amazing work that was done and the journey that we've taken and really come together and talk about what it is that we wanted to do covid really really spend things up because as soon as covid hit it became very A parent to us actually, you know sort of it was really funny because I started saying okay. Come on, we got to start making a difference. We got to start making a difference in court said that's great. We need a plan. We need a plan and my plan was let's get money out there and he said that's okay, but let's have a better plan than that. And so then we started looking into the best way of doing that and it came down between a deaf which is a Donor advised fund or a family foundation and we chose Family Foundation. Because first of all, we wanted it to be something that we passed on or the as a legacy for the children. We wanted to be held accountable to a certain amount of giving every year, although we give more than the minimum. And quite frankly we found Foundation Source through Morgan Stanley and we're given the the training wheels and the support system to do something which is can be very complicated. and the people who are there to answer all the questions make sure that what we're doing is legal within the guidelines and to every donation that is made protects the foundation and protects what it is that we're trying to do. And so it was a timing thing with covid that really spurred us to do it. And once we decided to do it, we hit the ground running really really fast and it's been an amazing ride. Before establishing the foundation you were each immersed in. relatively separate areas of work but in the same, Foxhole Tell us about this decision to take on philanthropy as partners and how have you structured that partnership? Everything that court and I have done is the partnership. He was the one who was the CEO and who was out there but everything that we did was a partnership from the very beginning even when we started dating and he said he wanted to be an entrepreneur and I had some sort of romantic notion about what that was. I I agreed and there were times when we had to decide are we going to continue down this journey or not? Continue down this journey and it was a discussion between the two of us because it affects both of us and affects our family and affects our lifestyle as all of the people on the Colt all the on the call know it. When it came together we again it was just a lot of talking like, okay, we know we want to do this now. And how are we going to do this? And we looked at each other and we realized that when it came to because of my experience with social Venture partners because of my experience with I had set up a Donor advised fund for one of my dear friends who had passed away. It made sense for me to be the president because I had more experience in that area. and honestly it spoke to me more to be the president and Court to be someone who is I mean completely equal we're essentially co-presidents, but my my title is President and then I go out and I meet people I do the research I find where it is that we want to go. And by the way, this should be an ongoing theme. There's no one best practice for for a foundation. There are like fingerprints. I like to say so my first four months were okay. Show me the Playbook show me how we're supposed to do this show me what is best practice for a foundation and Elizabeth and her team were really really great saying the playbooks inside of you and what it is that you want to do and we need to be able to bring that out and figure out what it is. So it is a constant discussion over. Hey, this is really speaking to me. Now. What is the best way to go and do this court brings incredible business experience that comes in and advises us and yet we are in the non-profit sector here. and that means the evaluations and the due diligence that you do on on the organizations that you're involved in is different than the due diligence that you would do on a for-profit company. So it's coming together. It's constantly discussing its constantly figuring out what are our values what it is Chord always says and he should speak to this. It's not about solving problems. It's about What is what's the world that we want to help create? And that's one of the most powerful things that he's brought to all of this and something that's a guiding principle for us. Yeah to expand I'll touch on that briefly. It's just, you know start with the end in mind and and work your way towards it towards an objective rather than the solving the problem in front of you which often gets you off track. So that's really what Robin is referring to I'll expand a little bit Elizabeth by saying that the way I think this partnership Works exceptionally, well on top of everything Robin has said is that Both of our responsibilities strongly dovetail in the sense that although Robyn is running the foundation and and the philanthropic arm of our investment strategy as a family. I and I run what I will call the for-profit investment strategy in the family our entire. Estate plan is set up so that any money that we make in either case ends up in the foundation ultimately or that's where it's earmarked for. So and broadly defined that means that all the future capital or future asset value that we create in either bucket is going to end up in the foundation bucket when it's all said and done. So we're very much aligned in our long-term objectives. So everything we discuss is got that flavor to it. That's really helpful. How have you approached setting up a foundation? What did you learn in the initial phase that might be helpful or interesting to others just starting out? Debt guidance. Oh, yeah, we can if we can stress anything you point the foundation Source people were invaluable. We were just so, you know looking up a steep mountain and not understanding what we're going to do and so finding Foundation Source was a huge asset to us and we really basically set out a two year timeline and said, we're not even gonna try and and make ourselves a public foundation for 48 months. And in fact that was advice given to us and it was very very well intended and good advice ultimately and we went to foundations where I said, okay, we know you guys know what to do, but we don't know what to do. Can we get a training course? Can you put together a curriculum for us? That would help us become good philanthropists, right? This this is a new era for us and they went through and created this incredible, you know multi-month plan where we would sit down for an hour or two every six or eight weeks. and the timing was on us we it was as fast as we wanted to go, but we also needed to listen and learn a lot and and then Through each session we get new things exposed to us and new questions would come up about our own thinking and what we wanted to be and how the foundation wanted to be created. And then we'd have a chance in the gap between our sessions to go off and do those things or try out those new ideas on the next set of grantees. We were considering and each time. We got clearer and clearer and clearer and here we are. You know, what is it Elizabeth the year and a half in and we're just about to get our website and put together. So we're right on right about on our two year plan, but that that help we got was invaluable. And it's a 100% I mean, I I went and interviewed a number of consultants and then found Foundation source and was really thrilled with the support that they would give us. Find the people who you feel are going to help you play with the dreams of what it is that you want to do. And this is one of the main differences I can speak to in our world centered around the for-profit world and now in the philanthropic world. And that is in the for-profit world it is. Okay. We got to grow we've got to get more financing. We've got to hire the right people and it ends up being very much of a competitive and zero-sum game type of atmosphere. And that's the way that it's set up when you get into the philanthropic world. It's much more a world of Partnerships and abundance and really truly working with people and playing with people in order to create the world that it is that you want to do and there is a shift in the mindset that comes with that and it takes some time and it takes really open honest conversations and it takes surrounding yourself with people that you trust who have been down this path before and it takes saying hey, we're brand new at this and we're totally okay saying that we're brand new at this and this is what we're trying to do and how do we get there? And it's not one road to get there. There are many different paths to get there which can be frustrating for people who are want to have the set path until you embrace the wow. There are more there is more than one path and isn't this there's so many opportunities to do things out there. I mean when we we started this I went through that phase of never have we had more money to do more help and never have I felt that I'm doing less of a difference because the more that you look into it the more that you're aware of it and then you get your support system around you again and you breathe and you say You know what? This is what I really want to help with. This is where I'm going to go and it's an incredible experience. We're gonna I I'm looking forward to sort of revisiting this topic a little bit more in a bit. But for the moment, we have a number of people in the audience today that are running companies or in a very senior leadership position in companies, and I wonder if you could share what the group some of your observations about the transition from CEO to Foundation leader. Yeah, I think I run four companies and it is a singular Focus, right? If you are executive in a business, you live it you eat it you breathe it, you know, you're really surprisingly you really get very little time off as I'm sure everyone on this call will recognize because you can't stop thinking about what you're responsibilities are back at the office and that is you know, that's a you just don't have time to think about things like philanthropy and I can honestly say, you know, we were doing it very very piecemeal prior to me stepping out of that lifestyle. The difference I think in the thing that I noticed is that the philanthropic world is much more about shared experiences. Learning a lot of different Lanes, I think a CEOs and and you know sea level Executives were all learning a lot of different things all the time. I think though that the the biggest mistakes that I saw made earlier and this is stuff that we were participating in when Robin was mentioning the some of the early found early philanthropic work we were doing which attempted to Overlay for-profit. Business models if you will on nonprofits as a means of making them more efficient or more effective and I saw how completely devastating that was to the nonprofits. It doesn't work. Nonprofits can't be managed and run directly like a for-profit progress. You know, we're all used to measuring things. Like we if we can't measure it we can't make it better and in the nonprofit World progress metrics are much harder to come by they occur much more slowly and they're a little less concrete and I think that was one of the major things I had to acknowledge and then step, you know step away from the well, you know, let's get the reporting done and how are we making and talking to these Pat these metrics and these patterns? And you know you you can actually do more harm than good by asking for tons of measurements of your grantees. And and the thing that Robin and I have learned is rather if we are going to ask and it's not that you shouldn't ask for goals and objectives and progress because as I said starting with the end in mind you want to know are you stepping in the right direction, but what we learned is when we make those requests, we actually have to acknowledge that it costs that organization something in terms of measurements and Reporting and analytics that might be very helpful to us as as grand Tours. But isn't always their best use of their time. So what we've decided as a foundation and this is obviously up for everyone to decide on their own is that we are going to you know, make a certain amount of Grant to the organization and then add a certain budget for reporting the measurements. So if they have to hire a person or bring a part-time person on that that person isn't part of the money we gave them it's actually added it's a little bonus effectively that they can use specifically to give us the reporting metrics we're asking for and if they can use that person for other things great and as our foundation grows beyond Robin and I because right now we're in and we staff it up which we intend to do. We will actually have people on our staff who we will make responsible for getting those metrics out of the organizations rather than putting that burden on them. So just be patient I think is my major, you know, we CEOs were all about deliverables and timelines and you know you want you need to have a DEC long Focus not a quarterly or an annual focus in philanthropy. and it's yeah, it's also about building the relationships and the people that we choose to invest in our people and I by the way I use that word intentionally invest because Even though in most cases because we also are truly investing in bipoc-led VC funds as a weight in order to support equality and that is truly an investment, right? There's going to be money that's made out of there. But even when it's philanthropic dollars of here's the money I consider it an investment because It's really important to recognize that we're looking for measures other than financial return. You know, we're in a very blessed position where we don't need that right now. And so our Roi has to do more with community building it has to do with I love the term money as medicine, right? Let's get the money out there and help to heal people. and help them to heal their communities to find the people who are in their communities see that in the midwest or in downtown Seattle or wherever else in the United States, but find the people who know their communities find out what it is that they feel they need for the communities invest in them and their resources and then let it heal and let it go from there and we actively look for people who Don't want to be siled and what it is that they're doing. They're looking to build Partnerships. They're looking to scale in terms of what it is that they're doing and who it is that they're working with and it's just really incredible. We've talked about the transition from sort of CEO to Foundation leader, but I imagine that nearly everyone listening today is involved in some sort of some form of charitable giving as individuals and I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the shift from chair giving us an individual to Leading a foundation What's what's that been? Like what what's been different? Giving giving individually was very much the oh, that's a really good idea. Let's write a check, which was something that I was very good at and to Court's credit. He kept saying yes, let's have a plan. Yes, let's figure out where it is that we want to make a difference and that's where bringing his for-profit skills is actually very very beneficial. So there is a marriage between the two it's just knowing where those skills are really impactful and helpful and where they can actually get in the way and there's no other way to know that then then to have conversations and many conversations and open and trustful conversations. so with the foundation it is and by the way, we do have a chunk of money for that right that someone comes to us a friend that's involved in something and we say, yep. That's great. And we write a check for a certain amount that's in there because that's important for me personally to be able if someone comes and a thousand five thousand dollars is going to make a huge difference to them we can do that. But when it comes to the big picture plan it is it is a plan and it is It should be joyful. Right? It isn't just oh there's a need here. We need to shoot money at it it is this is what we believe can really help and is healing and then we go out and we find the best way to do that one of the one of the things that we believe in is the community building of sports, you know, we are sports junkies and so we're involved in the United States Olympic and paralympic Foundation because we believe in that we believe in women in stem. And so we have gone through we started with our alma mater which is Duke University and involved in an incredible program there. And so when you find something that speaks to your heart and what you want to do, first of all, you're dealing as chord said with live ammo it's not just I can write a $200 check. I can write real money here. And so with that real money comes the responsibility to figure out if the systems that are in place are really going to make a difference and if if these are people and a process that you want your name behind and believe you believe are going to make an impact so it's not just oh good idea. Let's write a check it is this is who we are. This is what we believe in and so let's find the organizations out there that are doing it and support them. Yeah, I want to from a from an executive perspective. I want to share one insight into this that was very important to me and that is There's when you're giving money away to people that are asking for it. There's always going to be more people asking than you can give to rationally and it you know, it's like all the demands on your time every day and just like when you set your calendar the priorities you have to accomplish for your business for the year having a foundation the difference between a foundation and individual giving is that there's a long-term plan right? There's a there's an objective that we're trying to to meet her out over the next several decades. And when you have that level of clarity of the long term objective, it becomes a lot easier. to thoughtfully pass On opportunities to fund things that while they might seem great in the moment do not meet your long-term objectives and you're going to end up having to pass on more than you fund. That's an reality of the situation in most cases and as and so for us at least the concept of a foundation gave us that framework around which we can say our foundation, you know stands for XYZ. These are the areas we invest in. These are the geographies we invest in and when things don't map to that we can easily say we really love you, but that's not our stuff. That's not our sweet spot. And and then maybe we can help Point them to other resources because we spend a lot of time community building with other foundations to understand what their goals and objectives are so that we have points of reference or points of collaboration when we're funding things and we can bring additional Capital to the table. But at the end of the day, it's it's about finding the right people that you want to back and then backing them over the long term giving them enough time to make the differences that you believe are important. You've touched on on this next question. I'm going to ask but I I thought it would still be worth bringing up because it's often assumed that foundations have one job and one job only which is to distribute money. What's your perspective on this? Oh, wow. Yeah, I I money is the tool in order to bring about the change that you want to do. And don't get me wrong Distributing. The money is really really important and I'm a huge fan of the the richers Jennifer and Dave richer who started a Started something called half my deaf which in 2020. They said anyone who's going to give away half of their deaf by September they would match and they turned a million dollars into eight million dollars in order to get money out the door. So don't get me wrong getting money out the door. One of our core beliefs is if you just have money sitting here that doesn't make you a philanthropist you're philanthropist when money gets out the door and starts actually doing good. Having said that it's just a tool and I think too much attention is given to the check. It is much more than that and it is. Talking and learning from all of these organizations that you talk to and by the way, that's really fun. It is really really fun to talk to these people. It's just a conversations around hope and change and Community Building. And then finding the threads that connect all of those different organizations and saying hey, I hear what you're doing. Have you considered this and then talking to other foundations that we are we are associated with and saying you want to get together and and work on this cause and sometimes the answer is yes, and sometimes the answer is no and it is about taking whatever Community we have built which is by the way building our community is I would say right now. 80% of my job is building up the community so that we can come together and we can figure out how we can go out have the biggest impact on it's it's a lot of listening, you know, it's there's a tremendous amount of listening. and in order to know really where it is who we are can make an impact or not as Court said and and then finding the threads and coming together and then in an enormous amount of learning too, you know, I'm I'm drinking from the fire hose about how to evaluate Venture funds in order to invest in them and What are my priorities and what is my due diligence with them which is different than what the due diligence is on our for-profit size. So anyway, so many other things other than just writing a check and they're all super fun. Yeah, and I'll for those of you that haven't considered this particular Nuance. I'll just point out that when Robin talks about investing in Venture funds. She's talking about doing that from within the foundation. So this is you know an opportunity to provide capital in a you know to people that are doing socially good work or or manifesting the goals and objectives of the foundation that with that would benefit by having that kind of invested dollar move to them. It might actually return a financial return but the financial return will actually be realized within the foundation. And therefore put back into the circuit of more investing. So more are sorry more filmy. So just we you know, when we started was like, oh it's all about, you know, just giving money to causes. Well, it's not always that case that you know, you can maybe do a lot of Leverage by investing in a fund that's providing other social outcomes that your Foundation wants to see come true. So it's leveraged followers and that is for for those of you who are CEOs or who are the support system behind the CEOs. I'm getting more and more and more enamored of this as a vehicle. Right? Because it checks many many boxes and it is one of those cases where bringing the for-profit model. Can actually be done and and have social good with the caveat that if you are if you're doing due diligence on female black VC run companies, the diligence by definition has to be a little different than more traditional Venture Capital models, right? And again, that's more learning and it is just by the definition of having those conversations and then being able to help them and support them and let them learn how to translate what it is that they're trying to do. Into a more for-profit model is just a win-win-win and it's a super exciting area to be in and growing massively. Well, we're gonna open it up to Q&A from the audience and a couple of minutes, but I thought it would be fun to hear from you both about whether there's been anything about this experience that has surprised you have there been situations that you are not prepared for or other other. I've got this moments. There were many that we weren't prepared for but I think the most one of the greatest things with us realizing that there were going to be those moments right there is to come into it with the mindset of Yes, we have this big pile of money. And so now we you know, we're in charge of going out and telling people how they can do. It would be would have missed the true. Joy and the entire process. So it is spending a significant amount of time and Elizabeth has you know worked with us and said, okay, it's time for a website and part of me is like what wait really are we so, you know at some point in time we need to do it. I think I think the surprising I think really the surprising thing for me is how much fun it is? That in terms of in terms of the energy that it brings me and the communities that it's building for me. I knew it would be enriching in some ways. I didn't think it was going to be this much fun and and you know I am extremely lucky and the husband that I have in the fact that he is 100% dedicated to this as a partnership and that only makes us stronger and makes us What we can do out in the world what we can bring together here and then what we can send out into the world even stronger. So I think I was surprised with how much fun it is. I would say I would certainly Echo that and in fact to put a maybe a different turn of the prism on that particular Point not only fun. But also in some ways very life-giving and and vital in the sense that when we any of us who've ever run organizations think about retirement. It's very hard. Usually very intense people by Nature. We like to make things happen in the world and retirement Looms in our brains like giving up or not accomplishing anything and I think this provides an incredible outlet for all of that. Focused energy that we all have but it's so much but it's fun in a different way to Robin's point. So that was certainly one of those how wonderful it is for the two of us as partners to be able to share that experience in this phase of our life on our kids are out of the house and it's just us and we're having a blast like we're having a blast doing this. So that was great. I would say number two. I think the realization that foundations can accomplish things that governments cannot and when I say that I mean We've all watched political Cycles, you know, some things get funded then they don't in the next in the next shift of the the government cycle and the whipsaw effect. It has on communities that we're getting funded and now aren't getting funded or programs Etc. Can be devastating long-term particularly the back and forth and I think something that I didn't understand coming in the door, but I now fully understand is a foundation's can take really really long views on things and commit themselves for decades. To backing certain long-term causes that strictly speaking. Nobody else can even corporations, you know change and go up and down and they're fortunes and and I think that kind of ability if you take if you really own, Our ability as philanthropists collectively on this call to make long-term change. You're putting yourself in a very unique position by starting a foundation that that is a that is a social responsibility that can be very powerful so I think that I take that very seriously and then back on this topic of measurements and metrics and and you know bringing my skill set or our skill set to Bear is that A lot of times some of the more shall I say buttoned up operations that you might choose to find some of the bigger ones and I don't I'm not going to name names but they, you know, multi-billion dollar foundations or or Charities or even will provide you with certain metrics about how they're making progress. You don't always have to take the metrics that they give you as the God's honest truth in the sense of the difference. They're making it's okay to step back and say Well, that's fine. I get that. That's what you report to everybody else. But you know, please help me understand how it's making an impact in the communities that you're serving in a very in a more concrete way. So it's okay to ask for something that they're they're not always. likely to give so You know those just a few few takeaways. Thank you so very much Robin Accord. This is a Ben. Incredibly fun for me as have been the last many months working together. I understand that there might be some questions from the audience and we'd love to open it up. Court you have some insights into retiring or at least semi-retiring and thinking about philanthropy what were some of the things that you thought about during this process. So that wasn't a singular Continuum. So I'll say that the prep for Dismount is you describe it which is the hey, I think this is the last gig I'm gonna run, you know, so for me it was as a CEO founder type and everyone's you know journey is a little different. I knew that that whenever my last company was wrapping up as a entity whatever, you know, whatever my run in that company was likely to be however it ended that was going to be it as a Founder CEO type right that I might still get myself, you know involved in other things, but my role was not going to be showing up at an office, you know, 80 hours a week six days a week, right so that that was a mental transition of how is that going to look and what do I want to be doing with those those spare 80 hours, right? So so One of the you know big part of that was just kind of getting back to being with my family spending time with friends and engaging in my communities that that those things in some ways. There's a penalty fee for being a c-suite executive because a lot of those things often suffer in terms of time and focus so that was a priority. Along that line as I got back into sort of settling my own self into that role of all right. I don't have a job to go to every day. But I want to stay vital and active in my community as I reached out to people and started talking and engaging with the community at large not just my family and immediate friends. That's what sort of started leading us down this path of okay. Well we can get involved in some of the social things that are in, you know, right around us and there are really big issues in the world that we can see every day that need attendance and what you know in our little corner of the world. What can we do about it? And that's what got me started thinking and Robin started thinking about all right. We're giving away, you know a little chunks. Can we can we maybe form a much bigger Longer term plan. I mean, we're in our 50s right now. So just on an age basis like okay, I want to stay vital and keep working for the next, you know, doing something vital, you know until I die hopefully That's that's at least 30 years away if I'm lucky and maybe more I don't want to be sitting around for 30 years and that would be still that'd be silly. So that was sort of that and and so the foundation concept. Came up probably six months after six months to a year after I had had stepped down officially and and it grew organically and then it just took on a life of its own. Elizabeth what advice do you have for people who are thinking about starting a foundation? Right for your needs and your interest in. Your time availability, obviously the people that decide to work with Foundation Source choose a private Foundation. That's the first thing but we also really as Robin indicated. This is about kind of uncovering what's important to you. I often ask new clients what keeps you up at night in terms of the problems that are social problems that are on your mind that you may want to fix and what gets you up in the morning in terms of what are you excited to do? So those are those are some starting points. So here's another audience question Robin in court. Can you talk a little bit about the Dynamics of working together on the foundation when you didn't agree on things what are some of the key elements of being able to work together and make that work? I'll let Robin start with this one. I think that and and it is a very very important discussion. I think that that is a much bigger discussion than just the foundation and in terms of the ramping down I can speak as you know the support system. It's gonna take time for those of you who are thinking about wrapping it up. There is a give yourself the time give yourself the grace in order to get on the exit ramp, right and That's an absolutely critical thing to do before you even think about starting a foundation because your lives are very much going to change and there are things that are going to feel very strange when you're used to right the court who ran DocuSign is very different than the court who's sitting in front of you right now. It was kind of like a hello. Are you there? And and you need to be able to give the people male or female the space to be able to transition into the new place that you're being so that is separate and distinct from setting up a foundation and it'll feel strange at first until it doesn't and then you'll start to step into it and feel. Much much. It's going to feel much more natural, right? It's just the next transition and only you know, when it's right for you to leave I couldn't have told Court. That's it. We're done with companies. It would have been like, you know, keeping a labrador out of the water. Forget it there was just no way and when he was done he was done and we knew that he was done. so There's no there's no alternative then then just having conversations right and many many times. We stop and we say what is it that you want me to hear? And that is a question that should be asked honestly and regularly and it should be answered honestly in regularly. and once you get into the habit of doing that before you even start the foundation, then that just goes over into the foundation I can speak for me personally. Nothing gives me more joy than seeing Court get excited about something. and it may be something that I I'm like, okay, I'll give an example. He's very much into auto racing now, right? It's not a path that I thought I would go down, but I'm learning all about it and let me tell you it's nothing but joy to sit there and watch him and to do it myself and to build an entire new experience for us around it. Once the time and energy for the company goes away. You're going to have a whole lot of time and energy to put towards other things and just think of it in terms of conversation and joy and and being there together and working on things Court. What were you thinking about the effect of downshifting so to speak from the business side and what that might do to the family and your family relationships what other than auto racing where you planning to do with your time? Throughout our lifetime we had had this experience because I would start companies. I would grow them. I would sell them. I would take the public I would do something and then there would be a window of downtime in between that next that thing and the next thing so we we had The Good Fortune of having a fair amount of practice, let's just say in our relationship of what's it like when I'm not in the office and I'm around the house all the time which can you know at the beginning I can honestly tell you I was driving her crazy, right? And so and and she'll sit there and laugh about it and we do too but it's you know, we had to have an understanding that the between the two of us how that was going to work and I would even say that carries on into today where we collaborate on everything. We don't always agree. On things and that's important to just bake into your you know into the process like it's okay and there's some things that that I want to maybe fund and go after and that or that she wants to fund and go after that. We may not fully agree with like I respect you. I totally get it. Go do that like if that's important to you as an as an individual, even though I'm I can't get there or there's some reason that I'm not on board yet. I can still support you as my partner and and then be there to help if as things go along through that Journey whatever that's that individual Journey looks like and I think you know Robin's point about supporting me in some of the some of the hair brain things that I get into she's amazing at that and there's some stuff that she's getting into that. I'm like, okay, I don't really get it but I'm there for you. Like I want to I want to be there. So if we're gonna invest in that great, I don't have to I don't have to vote for it to make it real Elizabeth is a question from the audience when we think about foundations. We think about the Rockefeller Foundation or the Ford foundation. So, how big are you talking about here not all of us have forward levels of family money. You can start a foundation that with as little as 250,000 or 500,000 the bigger question for us at Foundation sources. What do you want to do? And can you align those goals with the resources you have and the partners you're going to identify to work with? So in other words? if you have you know, whatever amount of resources you have you want to find a World in which to operate where you can make a meaningful difference, so it's not so much about the number of zeros at the but you know that your foundation has as much as where you choose to work and how you work. I'll follow up. How does a foundation work multi-generationally to take the forward example, I don't think Henry Ford had the same vision for the foundation that the foundation currently is. How does that work? I think the biggest biggest key is communication and information sharing we often talk to people that are considering philanthropy and they think well, we're going to do this in our state plan when we're no longer here. I'm just going to Pat, you know, ask someone to to beat philanthropic on our behalf. And one of the questions we always poses. Well, what kind of philanthropic Imprint, do you want to have and if you start to live it and breathe it as Robin and Court are doing right now. That's going to leave. A signature that's going to leave information to anyone who succeeds you in leading this Foundation. Whereas if it's dollars left in a bank account that's going to leave a lot of mystery to solve for your successor trustees or your successor directors. They're all people. Honestly that have the belief that whatever happens after I'm gone. I'm not going to know about it and I trust the people that I'm leaving it to and I want them to have some latitude in identifying new directions for the foundation so it can go in many different directions, but I do think at the heart of it all is communication. Shared experience talking through what you hope the philanthropy work will become. Robin what kinds of conversations have you had with your children about the foundation and your family's philanthropic goals? that's actually really important and you know, one of the key things to remember is when I was in my 20s, so we have a 24 year old a 20 year old and a 21 year old and an almost 20 year old and When I was in my 20s, I wasn't thinking of philanthropically right my hair was on fire and I was trying to figure out how to how to be an adult. And so we are walking that line where and one of the things that we haven't mentioned is we set up a trust for the girls that have very specific bumpers on them because like Court said we're playing with live ammo. And it's a plan that Court came up with what I think it's phenomenal and within that there's a yearly requirement for them to give away. But that is it so far and then how is it that we make it fun? So we're constantly telling them what we're doing in the foundation and what's getting us exciting. But not expecting them to say oh my gosh, that's incredible. How do I get involved? Right we are informing them about what's going on. We're letting them have their own path into this because if we were to say, all right, we're having weekly meetings about the foundation. You guys aren't doing enough. There's you need to get more involved. You need to give more away. It's the quickest way to get them to check out. So we are by our representation showing it's very easy to see how much fun we're having with this and over time. They will start to get more involved and you know, we found this amazing app called cause CA u z e that is very very super easy to be able to do matching and get other kids and other family members involved and incorporates the fun of social media. So it's their own path and they'll get there and they're gonna see what it needs to us and that's gonna have an impact. We are consciously doing is documenting our desires for the foundation sort of that long-term goal and focus so that not only if it's our children who to pick up the reins, but some other it might be our grandchildren or somebody else that that they have clear understanding of what our goals and objectives and Mission are with the this Foundation specifically, so there's it's not left to guess and we've watched a number of family foundations founder on that. You moved on from day to day operations. And that's one of the hardest things to do for a Founder. What kind of advice do you have for other Founders or members of the managing generation in terms of how to stay hungry and entrepreneurial in their lives after the business, you know, I want to frame the answer a little bit differently than that. I think the way I would frame it is I now have the tremendous blessed privilege of being able to do what I want. When I want as frequently as I want from wherever I want. And if you know for all of us that have always been you know focused on I have to be in a place. I have to be in my job or my my office and I have to do this one thing that that's that's form, you know bringing forward this one objective of my corporate goals and objectives. My life right now could not be any better. Like I I find I find that I can fit everything in I'm tired at the end of the day, but I'm tired for all the good reasons. I go that I go to bed at the smile on my face and I wake up every morning with my coffee and just can't wait to have the next day happen because the the mix of things that I get to touch every single day philanthropically business-wise investment wise experientially travel friends Sports. um are that that mix is life-giving and I and I'm so Fortunate that I'm in a position to be able to do all those things simultaneously so it might my ability to juggle stuff is is only been magnified right now. Elizabeth any final thoughts for families who are looking to leave a legacy? Well opportunity to pursue philanthropy your way. Today we've heard from court and Robin about their way and clearly they are having fun. They are learning. They are imparting a tremendous amount of experience that they bring to the table in addition to funding. but for anyone in the audience know that there is help to be. Obtained in this sector Foundation sources here. We're happy to help. You don't have to do it. Any other person's way. We talk about best practices But ultimately it's about your practice. Great. Thank you to court Robin and Elizabeth for a great conversation on philanthropy. And also what comes next after running the business. It's really great insights and thank you to the audience for your time and attention today. We appreciate as always that you took the time to join us for this webinar and we hope you'll join us for future webinars. With that. I wish you all a great day, and we'll see you next time around.

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